Comments on: Question of the week (#2) http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/ Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:34:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeanne http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-56970 Jeanne Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:57:27 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-56970 I agree with the #1 in the first response...if a non pro or open horse shows up at a show and is the only entry they should get qualifying point (s)as long as they meet the class requirements and if it's a pattern class, as long as they do the pattern correctly. I have a reining and working cow mare that we have to haul my "regular riding" horse to compete against so we have a horse to beat at the shows. There is few (one) appy shows with cattle in my area (the NW) My horse qualified in senior and non pro reining but since I could not afford to drive all over for another show with cows, we did not bother to make the trip to the worlds. We are trying again this year and the local club we belong to (PEAC) has been very helpful in trying to assist us with the cattle issue. We hope to get to worlds this year but not if I have to drive over 5 states to get the right classes. I agree with the #1 in the first response…if a non pro or open horse shows up at a show and is the only entry they should get qualifying point (s)as long as they meet the class requirements and if it’s a pattern class, as long as they do the pattern correctly. I have a reining and working cow mare that we have to haul my “regular riding” horse to compete against so we have a horse to beat at the shows. There is few (one) appy shows with cattle in my area (the NW) My horse qualified in senior and non pro reining but since I could not afford to drive all over for another show with cows, we did not bother to make the trip to the worlds. We are trying again this year and the local club we belong to (PEAC) has been very helpful in trying to assist us with the cattle issue. We hope to get to worlds this year but not if I have to drive over 5 states to get the right classes.

]]> By: Pam http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-56289 Pam Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:20:00 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-56289 I show at the Regional level, pay my fees (along with my National Point Fees). However, if I am the only one in the class and I get no point recognition to try and qualify for the Worlds, why should I have to pay the National Point Fee?? As much as I would love to be able to show at the Worlds, it's not worth the time and expense to try and qualify. I'll just continue to show at the local level -- and show off my beautiful Appaloosa in the process! I show at the Regional level, pay my fees (along with my National Point Fees). However, if I am the only one in the class and I get no point recognition to try and qualify for the Worlds, why should I have to pay the National Point Fee??

As much as I would love to be able to show at the Worlds, it’s not worth the time and expense to try and qualify.

I’ll just continue to show at the local level — and show off my beautiful Appaloosa in the process!

]]> By: Sharon http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-56144 Sharon Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:00:40 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-56144 Qualifying by points by no means guarantees that only the best are making it to the World Show. Qualifying by points simply means someone was able to beat enough horses at "X" number of shows in order to earn those points no matter whether it was at one huge show with lots of competition or by traveling tons of miles to lots of smaller shows with less competition. Several of my horses qualify year after year in their halter classes, but I'm not so naive to think that I'm going to head to Texas and kick some butt down there at the Worlds. I've got better things to do with my money than spend it all on a trip to the Worlds just to say I showed there. I see plenty of that when I go down and watch the QH Congress. Qualifying by points by no means guarantees that only the best are
making it to the World Show. Qualifying by points simply means
someone was able to beat enough horses at “X” number of shows in
order to earn those points no matter whether it was at one huge show
with lots of competition or by traveling tons of miles to lots of
smaller shows with less competition.

Several of my horses qualify year after year in their halter classes,
but I’m not so naive to think that I’m going to head to Texas and
kick some butt down there at the Worlds. I’ve got better things to
do with my money than spend it all on a trip to the Worlds just to
say I showed there. I see plenty of that when I go down and watch
the QH Congress.

]]> By: Darlene http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55857 Darlene Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:11:11 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55857 I have been into Appaloosas for 19 years now and actively bred and shown. While my horses have done passively well on the local circuits, none have been "world quality". Now that I have finally been able to obtain a mare capable of competing at the world level, there's a possibility of the points being changed? I don't believe that the point system itself should be changed (if it were eliminated, we would see a lot more horses in the open classes thus taking more time to judge which in turn expands the time it would take to hold the entire World show which in turn creates not only more financial burden on the club but the exhibitors themselves in additional stall fees, motel fees, food and loss of time from jobs. However, I am in agreement that qualifying shows should be structured to meet the needs of regional exhibitors trying to qualify. Most shows generally have low participation and it is hard to acquire the needed points. Traveling 100s of miles to attend a show is not only a financial burden but takes a toll on the horse(s) as well. I'm in agreement that non-pro riders should not have to qualify to show at the worlds and certainly not youth. I feel that certain open classes that are generally not offered at regional shows (i.e. jumping, sidesaddle, driving, etc...) or generally having only one entry should not have to have qualifying points. I feel that shows should be limited to two-judges, not four. Some areas may have enough participants to have a four point but still they can be expensive of at least $48 per class plus nat'l fees. I certainly am not going to travel two hundred miles to attend a show that I can only afford to show in one or two classes because of the travel and stall expenses but I would go that far to attend a two point show because I could show in twice the number of classes. The economy is changing and ApHC needs to make changes with it but do it in a constructive way that encourages more participation rather than discouraging people not to show. What would I do with the system to make it better? I would encourage regional shows to have more one-point shows. One point shows are more economical to hold, class fees are lower which allows more exhibitors in more classes, nice prizes and ribbons can be awarded, etc... The mathematics are not that hard. Four pt. show that would only have 1-3 exhibitors in most classes or having 5-9 exhibitors (or more) in classes. Most regional people don't care about points, these people are the backbone of the ApHC, they don't have fancy horses or fancy tack or fancy outfits, they are out for the prizes and ribbons and the right to brag to friends. The "backbone" has slowly crumbled when their horses have performed well but the judges still place the four-beaters, heads in the sand, feet dragging, sideways moving horses who still manage to screw up. More emphasis needs to be placed on correct judging by the very rules the judges establish. This creates a huge discouragement to newcomers and they just don't come back. Horse showing is not about who can jog/trot and lope/canter the slowest, it is about correct movement of the horse or equitation of the rider. Get back to the basics before it is lost. I have been into Appaloosas for 19 years now and actively bred and shown. While my horses have done passively well on the local circuits, none have been “world quality”. Now that I have finally been able to obtain a mare capable of competing at the world level, there’s a possibility of the points being changed? I don’t believe that the point system itself should be changed (if it were eliminated, we would see a lot more horses in the open classes thus taking more time to judge which in turn expands the time it would take to hold the entire World show which in turn creates not only more financial burden on the club but the exhibitors themselves in additional stall fees, motel fees, food and loss of time from jobs. However, I am in agreement that qualifying shows should be structured to meet the needs of regional exhibitors trying to qualify. Most shows generally have low participation and it is hard to acquire the needed points. Traveling 100s of miles to attend a show is not only a financial burden but takes a toll on the horse(s) as well. I’m in agreement that non-pro riders should not have to qualify to show at the worlds and certainly not youth. I feel that certain open classes that are generally not offered at regional shows (i.e. jumping, sidesaddle, driving, etc…) or generally having only one entry should not have to have qualifying points. I feel that shows should be limited to two-judges, not four. Some areas may have enough participants to have a four point but still they can be expensive of at least $48 per class plus nat’l fees. I certainly am not going to travel two hundred miles to attend a show that I can only afford to show in one or two classes because of the travel and stall expenses but I would go that far to attend a two point show because I could show in twice the number of classes. The economy is changing and ApHC needs to make changes with it but do it in a constructive way that encourages more participation rather than discouraging people not to show. What would I do with the system to make it better? I would encourage regional shows to have more one-point shows. One point shows are more economical to hold, class fees are lower which allows more exhibitors in more classes, nice prizes and ribbons can be awarded, etc… The mathematics are not that hard. Four pt. show that would only have 1-3 exhibitors in most classes or having 5-9 exhibitors (or more) in classes. Most regional people don’t care about points, these people are the backbone of the ApHC, they don’t have fancy horses or fancy tack or fancy outfits, they are out for the prizes and ribbons and the right to brag to friends. The “backbone” has slowly crumbled when their horses have performed well but the judges still place the four-beaters, heads in the sand, feet dragging, sideways moving horses who still manage to screw up. More emphasis needs to be placed on correct judging by the very rules the judges establish. This creates a huge discouragement to newcomers and they just don’t come back. Horse showing is not about who can jog/trot and lope/canter the slowest, it is about correct movement of the horse or equitation of the rider. Get back to the basics before it is lost.

]]> By: Ann http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55790 Ann Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:11:43 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55790 We need to drop qualifying for the over fence classes, cattle classes, heritage, driving and anything else that does not fill. Points need to be adjusted downward for the other classes. Non pros should NOT have to qualify at ALL! What are we trying to do, make the show even smaller???? We need to drop qualifying for the over fence classes, cattle classes, heritage, driving and anything else that does not fill. Points need to be adjusted downward for the other classes. Non pros should NOT have to qualify at ALL! What are we trying to do, make the show even smaller????

]]> By: Nadia Loden http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55550 Nadia Loden Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:36:39 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55550 **Question: Should the point system for qualifying be adjusted upward, be changed in some other way or left as is? I think the NP's need tougher qualifications. Open is fine IMHO. If you want NP's to show that is. If not - then leave it 1 point per class. **Question: Should Open and Non-Pro horses/exhibitors be required to earn the same number of points to qualify? No - Open should be tougher than NP. The World is suppose to be about the BEST of the BEST competing. **Question: Should Youth exhibitors be required to earn qualifying points for the World Youth Show? Yes. It gives them a goal to achieve. I never thought it was a good idea to just let them go because they're kids. They need to EARN it! **Question: What would you do with the system to make it better for ApHC and the regional clubs? IMHO we need to KEEP our point qualifying and ADD on a minium number of shows you can attend. That way people HAVE to show and they ALSO have to earn points. In the classes where it's a little tougher to qualify then just do away with the points, but keep a minium number of shows they have to attend. I know Cattle and Saddle Seat are tougher classes. **Question: Should the point system for qualifying be adjusted upward, be changed in some other way or left as is?

I think the NP’s need tougher qualifications. Open is fine IMHO. If you want NP’s to show that is. If not – then leave it 1 point per class.

**Question: Should Open and Non-Pro horses/exhibitors be required to earn the same number of points to qualify?

No – Open should be tougher than NP. The World is suppose to be about the BEST of the BEST competing.

**Question: Should Youth exhibitors be required to earn qualifying points for the World Youth Show?

Yes. It gives them a goal to achieve. I never thought it was a good idea to just let them go because they’re kids. They need to EARN it!

**Question: What would you do with the system to make it better for ApHC and the regional clubs?

IMHO we need to KEEP our point qualifying and ADD on a minium number of shows you can attend. That way people HAVE to show and they ALSO have to earn points. In the classes where it’s a little tougher to qualify then just do away with the points, but keep a minium number of shows they have to attend. I know Cattle and Saddle Seat are tougher classes.

]]> By: Lynn http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55521 Lynn Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:51:44 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55521 Instead of using points to qualify, how about using percentages? That could even the playing field for different areas of the country, without making it a trailer race. A horse (or exhibitor) would need a certain percentage of placings to qualify. Placings could be based on number of horses beat, or number of judges placed under, or something I haven't thought of........ I definitely do not think youth should have to qualify, and I would like to see qualification for Non-Pro's dropped too. Instead of using points to qualify, how about using percentages? That could even the playing field for different areas of the country, without making it a trailer race.

A horse (or exhibitor) would need a certain percentage of placings to qualify. Placings could be based on number of horses beat, or number of judges placed under, or something I haven’t thought of……..

I definitely do not think youth should have to qualify, and I would like to see qualification for Non-Pro’s dropped too.

]]> By: Dianne http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55457 Dianne Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:16:31 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55457 I agree with the idea of specialty judges for the over fence and hunter classes. It is not feasible to expect the regular ApHC judges to become experts on these classes with the small amount of training that is required. It does not help matters that our rule book instructs them to judge in a way that is incorrect in the h/j world. There are many nice apps showing on the open circuits, but the few that do break down and come to our shows find out in a hurry that they are wasting their time. We need to ENCOURAGE more participation not raise the point requirements. Why do you need qualifying points for the world show anyway? You could still keep up with points for year end and ROMS, etc I think that the point requirements for qualifying should be done away with for several years as an experiment and see what happens. The World show might even become profitable for the national club. We have to make some changes to survive. I have to leave my state to qualify in the classes I want to show in. That is getting harder and harder to afford. Hopefully that board will listen to the membership and work to make changes happen now, not 3-5 years in the future. I agree with the idea of specialty judges for the over fence and hunter classes. It is not feasible to expect the regular ApHC judges to become experts on these classes with the small amount of training that is required. It does not help matters that our rule book instructs them to judge in a way that is incorrect in the h/j world. There are many nice apps showing on the open circuits, but the few that do break down and come to our shows find out in a hurry that they are wasting their time. We need to ENCOURAGE more participation not raise the point requirements. Why do you need qualifying points for the world show anyway? You could still keep up with points for year end and ROMS, etc

I think that the point requirements for qualifying should be done away with for several years as an experiment and see what happens. The World show might even become profitable for the national club.
We have to make some changes to survive. I have to leave my state to qualify in the classes I want to show in. That is getting harder and harder to afford.

Hopefully that board will listen to the membership and work to make changes happen now, not 3-5 years in the future.

]]> By: Destiny Zeiders http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55395 Destiny Zeiders Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:53:02 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55395 I believe the point system for world qualifying needs to change too. Please don’t increase it for everyone. I am in the same boat as Charity and Amy. I had to haul 12 hours in 2007 just to qualify for the World Show in NP Steer Daubing. I was lucky I qualified and that there was 1 other person in the class (with his 2 horses), because the next closest show that has it would have been 15+ hrs away. It could have been a complete wasted trip for me if the other gentleman wasn’t there. It’s not even as though you can “pad” the class for someone so they can qualify, because the cattle classes are not even offered on the east coast! There has to be some kind of pass given if these shows are not offered within reasonable driving distance (5 to 8 hrs) from your location. I was not able to run the 12 hours to qualify in ‘08, nor will I be able to this year, so that will be a few entries down at the World show if something is not changed. I believe the point system for world qualifying needs to change too. Please don’t increase it for everyone. I am in the same boat as Charity and Amy. I had to haul 12 hours in 2007 just to qualify for the World Show in NP Steer Daubing. I was lucky I qualified and that there was 1 other person in the class (with his 2 horses), because the next closest show that has it would have been 15+ hrs away. It could have been a complete wasted trip for me if the other gentleman wasn’t there. It’s not even as though you can “pad” the class for someone so they can qualify, because the cattle classes are not even offered on the east coast! There has to be some kind of pass given if these shows are not offered within reasonable driving distance (5 to 8 hrs) from your location. I was not able to run the 12 hours to qualify in ‘08, nor will I be able to this year, so that will be a few entries down at the World show if something is not changed.

]]> By: Lynn http://appaloosablogspot.com/2009/01/15/question-of-the-week-2/comment-page-1/#comment-55349 Lynn Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:19:22 +0000 http://appaloosablogspot.com/?p=1550#comment-55349 I'd like to add to Faye's comments regarding folks saving for a year or two - or three - in order to attend Nationals or World. This is quite true for many folks. When I attended world in '07, I spent well over $2000 for five days -- took one horse and did not enter many events. This does not include the payment I made to my show coach or the cost of my "show clothes" (and don't get me started on the crazy cost/expectations of women's sparkly show clothes!!!!) . I also spent upwards of $6000 that year to "get qualified" to go. I am fortunate to have a great paying job as does my husband and little to no debt, but still... $2000 is pricey for one show. I probably will not show at world again until 2010. This year I will attend a couple of large regional shows -- note I said only a "couple". I will also attend my local regional club's two shows. When I decide to return to World, I will carefully work up a show schedule and budget to try to get my qualifying points -- it has to meet my "horse budget" or I don't go. I will be attending open shows this year and next - they are nearby and only $5/class. No stall fee. No hotel costs. We already have folks in my State who have switched from Appaloosas to Paints and they are showing on the Paint and Pinto Circuit and open circuit. No world qualifying required for either one... And many others who show only Open shows and Youth World. We have to get these folks back -- We have to become more "user friendly". We live in a very different world today than we did several years ago -- we need to respond to the changes and - I hate to be cliche' - but we need to get out of the box with our thinking. I’d like to add to Faye’s comments regarding folks saving for a year or two – or three – in order to attend Nationals or World. This is quite true for many folks. When I attended world in ’07, I spent well over $2000 for five days — took one horse and did not enter many events. This does not include the payment I made to my show coach or the cost of my “show clothes” (and don’t get me started on the crazy cost/expectations of women’s sparkly show clothes!!!!) . I also spent upwards of $6000 that year to “get qualified” to go. I am fortunate to have a great paying job as does my husband and little to no debt, but still… $2000 is pricey for one show. I probably will not show at world again until 2010. This year I will attend a couple of large regional shows — note I said only a “couple”. I will also attend my local regional club’s two shows. When I decide to return to World, I will carefully work up a show schedule and budget to try to get my qualifying points — it has to meet my “horse budget” or I don’t go.

I will be attending open shows this year and next – they are nearby and only $5/class. No stall fee. No hotel costs.

We already have folks in my State who have switched from Appaloosas to Paints and they are showing on the Paint and Pinto Circuit and open circuit. No world qualifying required for either one… And many others who show only Open shows and Youth World.

We have to get these folks back — We have to become more “user friendly”. We live in a very different world today than we did several years ago — we need to respond to the changes and – I hate to be cliche’ – but we need to get out of the box with our thinking.

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